God's Wingman on Climate Change & Evolution

That we are yet again debating evolutionary theory and Earth’s origins “” and that candidates now have to declare where they stand on established science “” should be a signal that we are slip-sliding toward governance by emotion rather than reason. But it’s important to understand what’s undergirding the debate. It has little to do with a given candidate’s policy and everything to do with whether he or she believes in God.

That’s from Kathleen Parker, a conservative-leaning columnist for the Washington Post.

Parker, unlike Perry’s Republican fans, also gets

why he probably can’t win a national election, in which large swaths of the electorate would prefer that their president keep his religion close and be respectful of knowledge that has evolved from thousands of years of human struggle against superstition and the kind of literal-mindedness that leads straight to the dark ages.

Faith and reason are not mutually exclusive, but Perry makes you think they are.

36 Responses to “God's Wingman on Climate Change & Evolution”

  1. Jon P says:

    Kathleen Parker? Are you serious? A raise of hands from fellow conservatives who think Ms Parker is relevant?

    What no lead article about how Gore now considered skeptics as on the same footing as racists?

    Go pound sand Keith, you are ridiculous. 

  2. Fred says:

    If Perry gets the nomination and loses, Republicans around here will have to listen to Keith’s “I told you so’s.”  If Perry wins we will have a president who has a solid record of promoting economic growth in his state while he was governor.  Also, he will pull the plug on all that is global warming (i.e. EPA regulations, restrictions on fossil fuel development, and government-funded AGW research).  With his stance on global warming, no wonder Keith wants to portray him as someone who can’t win. 
     
    I disagree with Perry’s position on evolution but can put up with it in return for the demise of AGW “science”  that he will bring about. 

  3. Steve Fitzpatrick says:

    Nothing against Ms. Parker, but one must have a very left left-tilting view of vertical to think she leans much to the right.  While she may once have been moderately ‘conservative’ columnist, I would classify her today as a rather extreme moderate…. one who gets the respect of neither the right nor the left.
     
    WRT to Perry, he is a politician first… count on him smoothing the sharp edges ever more the further he goes into the process.  Nothing against Perry; most all politicians do the same, even Mr. Obama.

  4. Keith Kloor says:

    Jon P,

    My mistake. I should have quoted from this conservative pundit, who is more simpatico with the Republican base. 

  5. Steve Fitzpatrick says:

    Keith,
     
    That second conservative pundit is not to be taken seriously.. AFAICT, she comes from some other planet.  Fox News gives her a pulpit, but I think it is mainly to entertain folks like Bill O’Reilly, who mostly laughs at what she says.

  6. Jon P says:

    Keith,

    You are getting worse. You are a far-left loon who knows nothing about conservatives. Go watch some more Olbermann and Schultz, you know the true honest political pundits.

    We all know why you want to attack Perry so much and agree with people who say he is uneducated. It is because he is a veteran, an Air Force pilot.

    The above is not anymore ridculous than the things Keith “Lefty” Kloor has been spewing recently.  

    Yep bottom of the 9th is coming up and still no change from the alarmists. They are going to stick with the lineup that has been losing them the game for 8 innings. Good for them. 
         

  7. Keith Kloor says:

    Jon P,

    Not sure why a post that is comprised mostly of quotes from a conservative columnist and a link to another conservative has set you off, but I suggest you click on the comment policy on the upper left hand column.

    Read it closely. The next time you break those house rules you’ll be put on moderation. If that offends you or this blog riles you up, then you should consider going elsewhere, to a place that isn’t an affront to your worldview. 

  8. Jon P says:

    “Not sure why a post that is comprised mostly of quotes from a conservative columnist and a link to another conservative has set you off, but I suggest you click on the comment policy on the upper left hand column.”

    The first half of your statement is inaccurate. Your blog, feel free to continue your delusion.

      

  9. Tom Scharf says:

    Try and win an election by alienating all the religious citizens out there.  Good luck.

    I may not share many core beliefs relative to Bible thumpers, but  annoying them is no way to win an election.  There are a lot of Southern Baptists who would be very interested in hearing Obama’s clear and demeaning denial of creationism.  Not gonna happen. 

    Evolution is in the same category as Abortion.  As long as the politician keeps things on business as usual, he is not going to lose many votes.  Toxic subjects, stay away.  Climate change is becoming quite toxic itself.

    News bulletin: Most Democrats are not Atheists.

     

  10. Dean says:

    Following from the second part of your post, it is interesting and illustrative to compare religion in the two more conservative parts of the United States: the South and the Intermountain West.
     
    Visit the South and many restaurants have religious tracts on the table. They live to save souls and wear their religion on their sleeve. They are anxious to talk about it given half a chance.
     
    In many parts of the west (excluding the Pacific coast of course), the watchword is that you don’t talk politics or religion with strangers. Religion is between you and your God. Not universally of course, but a strong contrast with the south. But both are very conservative and I expect that church-going is as high in the intermountain west as in the south. I think this may be true of the northern plains as well, but have not traveled there as much.
     
    Southern-style religion may not be enough to drive the average Idahoan to vote for Obama, but they are not comfortable with it, and if Perry wins the nomination, he would do well not to ignore it. I’ve never heard of a western governor publicly praying for rain to end a drought. But then again, westerners have always depending on the federal government for their water . . . 😉

  11. EdG says:

    Saw Obama on TV today. He sure is getting gray.

    As many pundits have noted, if Obama has to run on his record, barring some miraculous economic recovery he’s toast. So they need to attack and demonize their opponents, and they are, and they will.

    This is going to be the nastiest election ever. Until the next one.

  12. Lazar says:

    Maybe Republicans are returning to serious politics. And kick out some of the corruption.
    Kinda worrying to watch people conflate tax, government and science with socialism.
    People like Jon P wouldn’t know socialism if it bit them on the ass.
    Keith ain’t a far-lefty.

  13. lou says:

    Not sure why this analysis by Parker would spark such emotion unless one finds comfort on the side of the divide that Perry sharpens and exploits to win the primary.  Parker merely points out that the divide Perry works to reinforce alienates a large segment of the voting population who find meaning in the accomplishments of scientists who help us understand how this world really works.  Labeling Parker as lefty only bolsters her argument that we are “slip-sliding toward governance by emotion rather than reason”.

  14. Jarmo says:

    If Perry wins the nomination, perhaps the Nobel Prize committee will award Obama with a science Nobel to bolster science against creationism 😉


  15. Eric Adler says:

    It is frightening to see Kathleen Parker labelled as a “lefty”, and how much support Perry has gotten from Republicans given his message.  It is a sign that much of America has gone off the deep end, denying fundamentals of science, including biology and physics and reality based economic thought. 

    It is through science that  nearly 7B humans to populate the earth and many to live in comfort and happiness, even though many still live in poverty, and has made the US the most powerful country on earth. Unfortunately, the US relies on immigrants for much of its scientific and technical prowess. Out of 40 Intel Science Prize finalists this year, judging by the surnames, 27 were immigrants from Asian countries such as Vietnam, India, Korea, China or Japan.  Asians account for only about 4-5% of the US population.  

    Looking at different regions of the US, the liberal Northeast has the highest educational level of any region, and the bible thumping south has the worst. The map of Science and Engineering Readiness Index compiled by the American Institute of Physics shows this.
    http://aip.org/press_release/state_outcomes_math_science_education_reveal_big_disparities.html

    It would be a horrible outcome for the US, if this kind of culture determines the future of our nation.

  16. Jon P says:

    Lazar,

    “People like me”.. Please explain what I am, I am dying to know.

    It seems that those on the left who after witnessing the complete and utter failure of an “intellectual” left of center President who had filibuster proof Senate for a year and Democrat controlled Congress for four years are resorting to personal attacks. Color me surprised.

    “Anti-Science”

    “Religious-Nut”

    “Uneducated”

    “Hates grandma”

    That is what you will hear from the left from now until November 2012. And I predict the Democrats will get creamed in the 2012 election.

    The only relevance Kathleen Parker has as a conservative is to attend the liberal media parties and be featured on MSNBC. And of course to be used by the left as representing mainstream conservatives along with chuckle chuckle Andrew Sullivan. I might as well start referring to the left-leaning political analyst Karl Rove.

    Eric,

    There is no better way to get people to agree with you than by calling them stupid. You are not too bright are you? And why are you bringing up such a racist study as you did in your above post?

  17. kdk33 says:

    Keith, can you please provide reference to where Perry has made these claims?

    If we are descended of some blend of apes, then we can’t have been created in God’s image. If we establish Earth’s age at 4.5 billion years, then we contradict the biblical view that God created the world just 6,500 years ago. And finally, if we say that climate change is partly the result of man’s actions, then God can’t be the One who punishes man’s sins with floods, droughts, earthquakes and hurricanes. If He wants the climate to change, then He will so ordain, and we’ll pray more.

  18. kdk33 says:

    Eric,

    Feel free to drive on down south, pull into the local ice house, and share your #15.

  19. Eric Adler says:

    Jon P,
    “Eric,
    There is no better way to get people to agree with you than by calling them stupid. You are not too bright are you? And why are you bringing up such a racist study as you did in your above post?”
    In my experience one can’t expect to have a real discussion with people who insist on their own version of reality and won’t face facts.  If the shoe fits, wear it.
    The fact is that America has relied a lot on foreigners for its science and technology talent since World War 2. The Asian immigrants who are the mainstay of new talent are only the most recent wave. There is nothing racist about this. It is a problem with American cultural values, and the biggest problem, shown in the map of SERI scores, is in the southern bible belt. This is a cultural problem, not a race problem.
    Sometimes people need a good look in the mirror to figure out who they really are.  The Intel Science Talent search, and the SERI scores provide a clear picture of what is going on  in the US with respect to scientific and technological competence. If a president who appeals to this culture of ignorance gets elected, it can’t be good for the future of America. You might not like the idea, but that is the reality .
    Obama is not responsible for the financial meltdown and the housing bubble which trashed the economy as he took office. He did not have a filibuster proof Senate and a Democratic Congress for 4 years as you claim.  The rapid adoption of a stimulus stopped the rate of job loss which was 750,000 per month as he took office.  The obstructionism of the Republicans in the HR has been responsible for a loss of confidence in the American economy.
     
     
     

  20. Jon P says:

    Eric,

    I did not claim he had a filibuster proof Senate for 4 years.

    “It seems that those on the left who after witnessing the complete and utter failure of an “intellectual” left of center President who had filibuster proof Senate for a year and Democrat controlled Congress for four years are resorting to personal attacks. Color me surprised.”

    I said the study you referenced was racist not your boring paragraph about your observations on the background of people’s surnames.

    You are not as smart as you think you are, as you have difficulty with basic reading comprehension.

  21. Jeff Norris says:

    Lou
    For both opponents and proponents CC is an emotional charged issue.  The fighting has become so intense that any attack on a supporter even on an outside issue is seen as an attack on their beliefs on CC.  Kieth any many others have been using Perry’s religious beliefs as a wedge issue not only against opponets of CC but also to cast doubts about Perry in general.
    Intellecturally your argument and I guess Parker’s “that the divide Perry works to reinforce alienates a large segment of the voting population who find meaning in the accomplishments of scientists who help us understand how this world really works” makes sense but has not rung true in election results since 1976 .   Voters even non observant ones see a candidates religious commitment as an assest but not a compeling one.  Since Carter every president has expressed a strong religious view but has done it in a comfortable  relaxed way, highlighting it as a deeply personal experience that is separate from policy.
    Parker is definetly not a lefty nor should she be called a conserative.  A better classifiaction would be  Blue Blood Republican. She has a history of attacking the GOP over religion and  other  plebian issues.  Look over her articles that won her the Pulitzer and I doubt you will find  any  strong conseravtive themes.
    http://www.pulitzer.org/works/2010-Commentary
     

  22. Eric Adler says:

    Jon P, You wrote:
    “I said the study you referenced was racist not your boring paragraph about your observations on the background of people’s surnames.”
    Explain why the AIP study was racist. You didn’t support your opinion with any argument that showed why the study of science education was racist. 
    He may have had a filibuster proof Senate for a year, but the Senate is basically is a paralyzed institution due to its rules and the filibuster is not the only problem In the real world the HR had a Democratic Party majority for 2 years not 4 as it was in your fantasy world.
     

  23. Eric Adler says:

    Jon P, you wrote,
    “We all know why you want to attack Perry so much and agree with people who. say he is uneducated. It is because he is a veteran, an Air Force pilot.”
    What evidence do you have that Keith or any other poster here dislikes Perry because he is a veteran Air Force pilot? This is news to me.
    Of course we  liberals ridiculed G W Bush for landing on an aircraft carrier before making his famous mission accomplished speech. Attempting to pose as a war hero ill suited Bush who actually avoided combat service using political pull. Also the Iraq War was not over as he claimed, and Bush 2 regretted the whole incident and the speech.
    Liberals never ridiculed G H W Bush who was a genuine war hero, or George McGovern who also was a combat pilot because of their service.
     
     

  24. Jon P says:

    Eric,
    This is getting too easy.
    110th Congress 1/3/07 – 1/3/09
    Dems 233
    Reps 202
    11th Congress 1/3/09 – 1/3/11

    Dems 255

    Reps 179

    So how many years is that? 2 or 4?

    So the Dems had control of Congress for four years until the 2010 election.
    They had a filibuster proof majority in the Senate for one year (2009-2010)

    They have had the Whitehouse since Jan 2009.

    It is fascinating how everything polictal is Bush’s / Republican’s fault and everything weather wise is Global Warming’s fault, pretty simplistic thinking on your part.

    I think you are in the fantasy world.

    Oh the study is racist as it determines that Mississippi scored the lowest, based on the following criteria:

    The SERI is calculated from publically available data, including Advanced Placement results, National Assessment of Educational Progress reports, teacher certification requirements by state, and data on high school physics class enrollment gathered by AIP.

    Mississippi’s population is 37% Black whereas Massachusetts is 6%.

    Was not very nice of you calling those students white/black/hispanic etc bible thumping idiots to make political point on how much smarter leftists are. That arguement is old, boring, and without merit.

    Enrollment data now determines intelligence, amazing.

  25. Jon P says:

    Eric wrote:

    “Attempting to pose as a war hero ill suited Bush who actually avoided combat service using political pull. Also the Iraq War was not over as he claimed, and Bush 2 regretted the whole incident and the speech.”

    Will you please stop lying and re-writing history! Bush actually inquired about serving overseas in a program for Air National Guard to serve in the Air Force as active duty (Palace Alert)  but did not have enough flight hours to qualify and the F-102 that he was trained on and flying was being retired. So even if he had that 1972 physical by july (his birthday) he would not have been able to serve in Vietnam as the plane he had all his flight hours in were not going to be in service. Ignorant much? Or does that just go with being on the left?

    The Mission Accomplished Banner was for the Carrier Group, NOT the Iraq war itself as the idiot press covered it and you fell for.

    Oh yes a former pilot wanting to get behind the controls again, cannot imagine that happening.

    A heavy case of BDS and minus a whole lot of facts is what you are infected with Eric.

  26. Jon P says:

    Soon to have a new article from Keith telling us about the uneducated and ignorant John Huntsman (darling of the left, until now).

    During a “Fox and Friends” appearance, Huntsman reiterated that he trusts evolutionary science, but explained: “I believe in evolution. I think it’s part of God’s plan.”

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/62226.html#ixzz1WSHchCRe

    Oops there goes that great hope to divide the Republican Party with the well-known, strong polling, John Hunstman!

    Oh and someone come help Eric out, I am starting to feel bad for the whooping he is taking!

  27. Keith Kloor says:

    Jon P,
    Your particular brand of nastiness shows no sign of abating with the warning I gave you.

    You’re still welcome to comment here, but you’ve forced me to put you on moderation. Sometimes that actually has a moderating effect on people. Most times, they fly off to another coop. So be it. 

  28. Jon P says:

    Build your cage Keith and keep up the inconsistencies.

    My facts stand, at least that was let through.

  29. Lazar says:

    “I believe in evolution. I think it’s part of God’s plan”
    Not an unreasonable proposition.

  30. Eric Adler says:

    Jon P,
    I understand that in your fantasy world Obama deserves the blame for everything bad that happens, which is mainly the economy.

    Here is what the real world is like. Obama became president in Jan 2009. The Republicans got control of the HR in Jan 2011. I make that 2 years that Obama had a Democratic Congress while he was president and one year he had 60 Democrats in the Senate.  He has served about 2.7 years not 4 years. His term is up Jan 2013.

    Since the Republicans have admitted that their objective is to make Obama a 1 term president, and the president  cannot enact legislation without Congress, I don’t see how the President can be responsible for the economic mess we are in. He doesn’t have a Congress that will enact any program that he proposes.

  31. Eric Adler says:

    Jon P wrote

    “I think you are in the fantasy world.

    Oh the study is racist as it determines that Mississippi scored the lowest, based on the following criteria:

    The SERI is calculated from publically available data, including Advanced Placement results, National Assessment of Educational Progress reports, teacher certification requirements by state, and data on high school physics class enrollment gathered by AIP.
    Mississippi’s population is 37% Black whereas Massachusetts is 6%.

    Was not very nice of you calling those students white/black/hispanic etc bible thumping idiots to make political point on how much smarter leftists are. That arguement is old, boring, and without merit.

    Enrollment data now determines intelligence, amazing.”

    The study did not evaluate intelligence. It evaluated the school systems efforts and results, to prepare students for work in science and technology. It is racially blind. I didn’t  call the students bible thumping idiots. It is the community leadership, not the students who are at fault. The aspirations of the community determine what programs are available in the schools, and what standards are set for the students.

    This is a function of the culture of the community which is failing to prepare its young people properly. Politicians who mislead the community are partly to blame. This includes Rick Perry, and the Texas School Board who are more concerned with indoctrination of students with right wing revisionist history – Phyllis Schlaffley in the textbooks, Thomas Jefferson out, and teaching of creationism as an alternative to evolution.
     
     

  32. kdk33 says:

    Just to build on Eric’s point…

    Since the culture here in the south is sooo bad, I would highly suggest that all you northern liberals who have come to Texas, of late, for jobs, pack your bags and leave.

    That way, we you won’t have to suffer our culture, and we can enjoy our good economy in peace. 

  33. Eric Adler says:

    Jon P says:
    “Will you please stop lying and re-writing history! Bush actually inquired about serving overseas in a program for Air National Guard to serve in the Air Force as active duty (Palace Alert)  but did not have enough flight hours to qualify and the F-102 that he was trained on and flying was being retired.”

    National Guard service during the Vietnam War was definitely a way for draft age males to avoid service in Vietnam, and influential young men commonly got themselves in  as a way to avoid combat service.

    Influential people got Bush a spot in the guard. Bush did not fulfill his committed 6 year stint, and goofed off in his last year of service. Based on the way he fulfilled his commitment, it is doubtful that he really wanted to serve in combat, despite the inquiries that he is supposed to have made. As a youth he clearly was a prankster a drunkard and a goof off. That is what the record says.

  34. Jon P says:

    Eric,

    Nice of you to finally agree about the facts I listed for Congress the last four years.

    And I guess your point is, Obama is blameless for everything and Democrats are so inept that they can be stalled and stymied by a party that holds one half of one third of the government.

    Further, according to your logic here, Bush is also blameless, since the Democrats controlled Congress starting in January 2007 and refused to work with him and he was unable to enact legislation which led to the initial crash of the economy.   Shall we play your blame game some more?

    Eric says:
    “He doesn’t have a Congress that will enact any program that he proposes.”

    The last economic policy the President proposed was the 2012 budget, which was voted down 97-0 in the Senate. All the Republicans fault, of course. 

    Where is your apology for being mistaken about George Bush’s military service?  

  35. Keith Kloor says:

    Okay, this back and forth on Bush and Obama has run its course. I think readers can judge for themselves which of you has the stronger argument.

    Let’s move on… 

  36. Eric Adler says:

    Kdk33 
    Most of the jobs created in Texas are minimum wage jobs without health care benefits. I really doubt that many liberals from the Northeast have migrated to Texas for the great jobs there.

    A lot of immigrants and low wage workers come there to take what they can get, and benefit from cheap housing and low energy costs. Perry can’t claim credit for the energy sector being strong. He didn’t create the oil and gas that Texas has. 

    Texas job creation has not kept up with the growth of the working age population. It has the largest fraction of the population without health insurance in the country.

    Texas did not get hit with the housing bubble which subsequently burst, because home loan regulation was very strict for a long time. This predates Perry’s term, and he deserves no credit for it. In fact, Texas has a very weak governor, and the real political power is wielded by the state legislature.  As a result, Perry doesn’t really deserve much credit for the economy. 

    The record does show that Perry gave out influential appointments and economic concessions in return for large campaign contributions. I hate to see what he would do with a more powerful office like the US presidency.

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